Mediocre photographers

[moroccangirl]

Why do people think they can walk out of a camera store with a brand new camera and poof, they are a professional? I am FB friends with an old high-school friends. We comment on each others kid pics occasionaly, but that's about it. I've been FB friends with her for about a year, and have never seen anything related to practicing photography, no comments about it, not listed in her hobbies, etc. Her sister is a pro, and is very very good.
She posted that she completed her doula training, and immediately after that started posting her "photography", telling people shell be at the beach on xx date "come get your family photos done", etc. I'm thinking she helped someone through labor, took some photos, they loved them, and now she's a professional.
I think ilp.com has ruined me, because her photos don't even compare to what the very beginners post over there. I'm happy she's doing stuff she loves, but I wouldn't hire her to be my photographer. And people leave comments fawning over her photos. Even the CH photogs put her to shame. Im just confused.

[Luckylily]

Don't. get. me. started.
 

[Eco Ellen]

What do you mean "even" the CH photographers?

 

[moroccangirl]

What do you mean "even" the CH photographers?

 

I didn't mean anything by it. Not everyone here is professional, but still take amazing photos. 

[Luckylily]

Oh, and ILP didn't ruin you, it just educated you.

ILP is hands down the best thing that ever happened to me as a photographer.  I've learned more in the last year or so on ILP than in a decade of trial and error and several photography classes.

[HeavyFeet]

What's ILP?

I have a hard time criticizing beginning photographers too much.
Everybody starts somewhere... and usually it's just by an encouraging comment from a relative or friend.

6 or 7 years ago, I knew nothing about photography. Nothing.
And today, I think I know even less

[Luckylily]

What's ILP?

I have a hard time criticizing beginning photographers too much.
Everybody starts somewhere... and usually it's just by an encouraging comment from a relative or friend.

6 or 7 years ago, I knew nothing about photography. Nothing.
And today, I think I know even less

ilovephotography.com is a photography forum, mostly geared towards family/children's portrait photography. The talent there is staggering.

[Ghost of Circusdog]

What's ILP?

I have a hard time criticizing beginning photographers too much.
Everybody starts somewhere... and usually it's just by an encouraging comment from a relative or friend.

6 or 7 years ago, I knew nothing about photography. Nothing.
And today, I think I know even less

first rule of photography club...don't talk about photography club.

That being said, here I go. I blog photography blog for a local paper and I get lots of comments (not actually on the blog) but when I'm out shooting. I don't like to think in terms if I'm good. I see something..I'll photograph it or want to try something I tend to try it. Lot's of times it doesn't work...sometimes it does. I've found a lot of people get DSLR's, quickly get frustrated and end up shooting in auto or P mode. With a small amount of time invested, like ILP and other sites/books you can quickly increase your knowledge. Then there is the part you can't pin down (at least I can't), what makes you good or great as a photographer. It's more that just skill and knowledge.

I've considered going back through my flickr account and deleting 3000 pictures or more...not because they're really bad...they're just not really good. Bug, flower, bug, sky, water, attempted artsy shot, dark blurry rainy sidewalk, what the hell was I thinking shot!!!  ...etc

[Luckylily]

With a small amount of time invested, like ILP and other sites/books you can quickly increase your knowledge. Then there is the part you can't pin down (at least I can't), what makes you good or great as a photographer. It's more that just skill and knowledge.

This is absolutely true, but there are a LOT of people out there charging a LOT of money for technically poor photographs. I paid $1200 for my wedding photos and they were AWFUL. Underexposed, too-bright flash, etc. Awful. Part of that is on me for trusting a friend's recommendation because I honestly didn't know any better.

The thing is, people think just because they have a camera body and a couple of lenses, they can charge people $$ to photograph them, when they really don't know the technical side of shooting at all.

And yes, I do tend to be a little hard on those people--because I used to be one of them. I didn't charge a fortune, but I did charge people money to photograph them when I had no business doing so. I got smart, stopped charging and started working on the technical side, and only in the last 6 months or so have I started doing it for $ again.

[omega lambda]

I have mixed feelings about it.

On the one hand, it annoys the crapola out of me that unskilled and sometimes unsavory people who call themselves professional photographers take money from unsuspecting people and deliver crap.  I know it's crap, sometimes they know it's crap, but honestly, sometimes their clients don't know it's crap.  So if the client is happy, then I guess I'm  , because as Heavy said, everyone has to start somewhere.  If the clients are unhappy then I'm really really  .  Because their experience will get passed around by word of mouth and quality professional photographers everywhere lose credibility.  On the other hand, the unhappy clients just learned that you get what you pay for (and hopefully the crapola photographer didn't charge the usual and customary rates), so if they aren't completely ruined by the experience they are probably now more willing to pay a truly professional photographer the rates he/she deserves.

I absolutely believe that anyone and everyone has a right to try whatever they want.  But charging money for profit (and therefore becoming a legal professional) is wrong x 10^23 unless you also:

1.  Have a business license
2.  Have a TAX ID
3.  Have liability insurance
4.  Can deliver professional quality photographs (I know this one is interpretable)
5.  Could (although it is not necessary to do so) pass the PPA Certified Professional Photographer Exam.  I add this because if you could pass the exam, even if you chose not to take it, you are at least technically proficient and can achieve the photos you want when you want them, not just hit and miss, and this includes lighting.

If you're a hobbyist and want to dip your toe into the professional waters, feel free.  You have a right to be reimbursed for prints, film (ha! does anyone besides me shoot film anymore?), parking, entrance fees, etc.  But the photography and your time is donated in the name of learning because you are asking people to give up their time so you can hone your craft.  And when you’ve decided that your skills have reached the pro status and you are going to start charging – do your homework!  You should align yourself to the going rates in your area as well as being based on your skill level, offerings and experience. 

I agree with Circusdog - there's that little something extra, the part you can't pin down and which is often called "the eye" that separates the not so good from the good to great.  I have seen A LOT of people try to start a business just as morrocangirl says, but I have also seen almost all of them fail because they don't have items 1-5 on my list and/or they don't have "the eye".  But most importantly, they think being a photographer is all fun and no work.  Bwahahahahahaha! 

[triciaflower]

I almost started a thread about this very same thing, but was worried I'd get slammed.

There are some very talented people here and I don't want anyone to think I am talking about anyone here.

I know at least one person like this. (who has about 4 friends who have done this exact same thing) None of them know the basics. In fact, one of them took basic photo lessons from my DH. Which is great! But man, she's charging a buttload of money for her mediocre photographs. At least she is trying to figure out how to use her camera on Manual.  

I've checked out her site, and wow. Blurry. Technically bad. Atrocious composure. eeeeek!

This is so very frustrating for professionals with decades of experience.

[moroccangirl]

If I were taking the quality of photos that she has on her FB page, I would still be in practice mode, and I'd be calling for people to come out to let me practice on them. I wouldn't be setting up paid photo shoots.
And I agree with everything y'all have said.

[Eco Ellen]

When I take photography jobs, I am very clear to point out to people that I do not do this for a living - that I am not a professional per se.  On the other hand, I work my ass off and provide them with a lot of quality images and am very generous with my time.  I do, however, charge them money.  My time is not free, even if I'm not a professional.

It's a little early in the morning and this might sound pissier than I actually mean it. 

[HeavyFeet]

But charging money for profit (and therefore becoming a legal professional) is wrong x 10^23 unless you also:

1.  Have a business license
2.  Have a TAX ID
3.  Have liability insurance

 

5.  Could (although it is not necessary to do so) pass the PPA Certified Professional Photographer Exam.  I add this because if you could pass the exam, even if you chose not to take it, you are at least technically proficient and can achieve the photos you want when you want them, not just hit and miss, and this includes lighting.

<runs off to check out this exam>

[omega lambda]

<runs off to check out this exam>

:D:D

The exam is difficult to check, but the PPA bases the exam on This Book.  There is a study guide on-line for this book as well, so if you got the book, read it, understood it, could follow along with the study guide and pass the quizzes and tests, it amounts to about the same thing. 

One thing I like about Certification is that it requires some level of commitment because you have to take the test, submit images for review and maintain certification (some number of education units every 5 years). 

[Yogi]

Hm, this is intersting. As a new owner of a camera I can't even begin to think about using the way it should be used, I have the utmost respect for people who really spend the time to learn the craft. I just signed up for a three-week photography course and just reading through Heater's lessons here I'm overwhelmed with what there is to know - but excited.

I was at a party on Friday and one of the girls had business cards for her photography business, portraits mostly. This is a side thing for her, something she'd like to develop. I looked at the website and the photos just look like normal photos to me. Nothing special about depth of field, nothing special with framing or anything... they're good photos but they could be mine, or anyone's.

I don't begrudge her the desire to want to have a photography business but absolutely nothing about her shots stands out. I just found it odd.

[omega lambda]

Hm, this is intersting. As a new owner of a camera I can't even begin to think about using the way it should be used, I have the utmost respect for people who really spend the time to learn the craft. I just signed up for a three-week photography course and just reading through Heater's lessons here I'm overwhelmed with what there is to know - but excited.

I was at a party on Friday and one of the girls had business cards for her photography business, portraits mostly. This is a side thing for her, something she'd like to develop. I looked at the website and the photos just look like normal photos to me. Nothing special about depth of field, nothing special with framing or anything... they're good photos but they could be mine, or anyone's.

I don't begrudge her the desire to want to have a photography business but absolutely nothing about her shots stands out. I just found it odd.

Wish her lots of luck.  I know a lot of photographers who are hanging up their cameras.  Some have decided to retire, most are deciding to throw in the towel.  The typical experience right now is:

1.  get some good shots, everyone tells you how wonderful you are
2.  those good shots got people asking you to take photos of them - you're flattered!
3.  those photos are pretty nice  and they tell you how wonderful you are (even though you spent something like 40 hours taking and preparing the photos for consumption)
4.  A few more people tell you how wonderful you are and that you should start a business - you're flattered!
5.  You start a business and people tell you how wonderful you are -especially since you're practically giving away your time and products to build a portfolio
6.  You're 1 or 2 years into the business and realize that you really need to raise your rates because your business isn't making any money - all those people who told you how wonderful you are? - they've disappeared
7.  You've raised your rates, bought a new computer, invested in good glass, learned your craft, have learned all the ins and outs of running a small business (marketing, accounting, sales, production, quality control, etc), but your clients have disappeared

OR

7.  You've raised your rates, invested in good glass, didn't learn your craft, have no idea how to run a business and/or you're being sued and lost all your clients.

Where did all the clients go?  They telling the new guy with the new camera how wonderful he is and they're getting their photos for almost free.

I think there was a bubble in the early part of this decade and some photographers were making a pretty good living.  Now?  Not so much.  'Togs I know who shot 30-40 weddings last year have a total of 4 or 5 this year.  Portraits?  Almost the same thing.  My weddings are way down, but my portraits and corporate stuff is up - so I haven't thrown in the towel yet.  But believe me, it's on the radar.

I think one of things that's going to make it even harder for the upstarts is that people are expecting a lot for very little money right now.  If you don't deliver, you could be in serious trouble.  I know of a young woman who shot her first wedding and is going to court over it.  I know this is all anecdotal, but it's pretty ugly out there right now for ALL photographers, established ones and the new ones.

[Eco Ellen]

I'm somewhere between 5 and 6.

Check in with me next year!

[omega lambda]

Good insight YM. I get the "you should go into business" all the time. I just shake my head and say I like photography too much to do it for a living.

For what reason? Is the client unwilling to pay? Or unhappy with the images?

Unhappy with the images and wants compensation.  Apparently she was paid up-front, the client was very unhappy with the images (I haven't seen the images so I don't know if the client is justified or not) and took her to court.  This woman is a friend of a photographer friend of mine.  My friend teaches photography, the young woman was a student of his (fairly recently) and came to him for advice when the stuff hit the fan.  The young woman didn't have a business license (could work in her favor) and no insurance (could bite her in the bum).  I haven't talked to my friend lately, so I don't know the outcome, but going to court is costly both in money and anguish.

I think what a lot of people (both photographers and clients) underestimate is the emotional value of wedding photographs and that for the most part, you get one shot at it.  I have no doubt that in many cases, hiring an unqualified photographer is the client's fault.  Before the wedding they put a priority on low cost and not enough priority on experience and quality.  AFTER the wedding, quality becomes their number one priority and if the quality isn't there, their emotions can get the best of them.   

[badger]

I've been reading through most of the threads in this forum in the last couple of weeks. I'm curious for an update of sorts. Yogi, MG, and all the other once complete SLR newbies, how are things going now? How are all the professionals and those with more experience doing? Have things changed as FB has taken a firmer grip and more and more pseudo professionals are able to come forward?

I admit to being completely frustrated when my parents booked a photographer in Scottsdale to take family pictures. In my mind, he was exorbitantly expensive. The pictures he took were beautiful, though. Now I feel a little ashamed I was a bit pouty about it....not outwardly other than to my DH. Anyway, I've learned a lot through this thread, and others.