Will 400's really make you a faster runner?

[Run Amok]

I'm following hal higdon's intermediate half marathon training plan. So far, I quite like it. The mileage is reasonable but includes workouts of varrying intensity-- which is kind of fun!

His track workouts are pretty short-- 400's of an increasing number.

He suggests running them at your 5k pace. 9 min miles seems about right to me. My long run pace is somewhere around 10:30 right now. Three miles at 9mins leaves me feeling spent.

My local track is in poor condition so I've mostly been using the tm and doing .25 mile incriments and then walking .15 miles between. 1mi warm up and 1 mi cool down.

400's feel SO SHORT that running them at 9min miles feels ridiculously slow. So, I've been running them more like 7 to 7:30. But, again, the increment feels so short as to almost be worthless.

So-- if I'm able to complete the workout (I'm tempted to say "with ease"-- today I did 6x400 at 7-7:30 plus warm/cool and definitely could have done a few more) am I at risk of running them too fast?

Is this a sign I should suck it up and run my other runs faster?

My legs & lungs both seem to say NO when I try to run much faster than usual.

[siamesedream]

They make me faster, in conjunction with 800's which work the more aerobic/long speed side.

[siamesedream]

Run your easy runs easy, let the effects of the short speed work diffuse into your regular running pace. Also, you might want to take a rest day the day BEFORE your speed session. Resting the day before will allow you to come into your speed workout fully refreshed and ready to go hard.

[Ice Cream]

Yes, I think it does make you faster, but I prefer to start with 400s and increase the distance rather than the number of repeats in each speed workout.  So 400 in workout one, then 600, then 800, then 1,000, but always the same number of repeats.

[Arrojo]

Yes! 400s are hard. If the workout doesnt kick your ass, you aren't working hard enough. Hal knows what he is doing.

[Run Amok]

So, then I should run them even faster?

[radial]

If 400s at 7 minute pace seem too easy, try running 800s at the same pace and see what that feels like.  When that gets too easy, bump up the interval to 1200 meters.  Any way you cut it, training to run fast at track distances will make you a faster long distance runner.  Sounds trite, but it always worked that way for me. 

[radial]

So, then I should run them even faster?

No, increase the distance if it's too easy at 400 meters.  At least that's what I would do if my goal was to run longer distances at a faster pace.

[Eco Ellen]

You are still at the early part of your training. It is not supposed to kick your ass yet.

From what I have read of your training, I think your long runs are too fast and your planned 400s too slow. I think your 5k pace is in the 8:30 range and your long run pace is supposed to be in the 11+ range.

9 is too slow for you for 5k pace.

[caito]

400s & 800s once a week really do help you get faster.  And they are hard!   If you're running the right pace, 400 meters no longer feels short by the last repeat.

[Richard21142]

Since you're training now is to build endurance, then you need to keep the 400s aerobic.  When I start doing track workouts, my first workout is a startling point and I gradually increase the pace over a long period of time.  I also don't do the same track workout every week.  I might run 400s one week and 800s, 300s or 200s another week.  you can also do ladder workouts.  The goal should be to get faster over time.

When I was coaching my oldest daughter, I never had her do a " kick ass" workout and she ran under 11 minutes for 2 miles in high school.  Her quarters were always run "under control". 

[radial]

You are still at the early part of your training. It is not supposed to kick your ass yet.

Very good point.  I haven't looked the Higdon plan, but I bet he has you running a lot more than 6x400 for speed work before race day.  Enjoy the easy part of the program!

[Run Amok]

Yes. He builds to 10x400. Other speed work includes pace runs, tempo runs, and races.

[iwuzwilson]

I am more of a Pfitzinger and Daniels fan rather than Higdon. There is a time and place for 400s, but the question you need to ask is what is your objective. I think 400s are a good introduction to faster running, a stepping stone, but ultimately you want to build to longer reps to work on that pace. First though, your objective.

5K effort at roughly 9 minute miles is sort of at V02 max level but at the moderate end of that. If you are trying to improve your V02 max then Pfitz and Daniels recommend reps of 2 to 5 minutes at that effort, with 60% to 100% recovery between reps (i.e., if you are doing 3 min reps then 2-3 minutes recovery is usually good) I'd use your current 3K effort as a starting point, not the 5K. You will get more out of the workout.

To work on speed, then shorter-faster reps with longer recovery will probably be better. e.g., build to 8 to 10 X 20-30 seconds at your projected 1 mile pace with a 1 to 1.5 minute recovery. Mix in plyometrics or form drills on a regular basis and you have your speed development built in.

[Yogi]

Actually following the 400s in Gibson's plan absolutely made my regular-effort mile pace faster. I'm really mad that I avoided them for as many years as I did now that I know how effective they are.

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[Zapatista]

They're a lot better if you do them in a group. Once I was doing 400s by myself and joined a CMS workout and ran the 400s 10 seconds faster.

[Run Amok]

They're a lot better if you do them in a group. Once I was doing 400s by myself and joined a CMS workout and ran the 400s 10 seconds faster.

This is how I started doing track-- with my running group! Mostly because running alone in the wind & dark was so icky this time of year. But, man, our track is in ROUGH shape this time of year.

In general, I got a lot faster running with people who run faster than me!

[Richard21142]

The 400s don't have to be run on a track.  I prefer to use the mondo track at the high school, but the time when I can use it is very limited.  So, I mostly do my 400s, 800s, etc. on the roads (measured with GPS).  This gives me more options than on the track.  I can run the workout on flat, uphill or downhill courses or combinations of all three.

[Zapatista]

This is how I started doing track-- with my running group! Mostly because running alone in the wind & dark was so icky this time of year. But, man, our track is in ROUGH shape this time of year.

In general, I got a lot faster running with people who run faster than me!

I was lucky enough to run at lunch with a group of guys mostly faster than me for 5 years. When our office moved and I ran by myself my running went down the tubes.