Marathon training: weekend approach

[Handsome Jack]

Having difficulty executing on Higdon's longer Saturday runs of 10 miles followed by a Sunday 20 mile long run. My question is around given that a runner is unable to finish the 20 mile run, or it is compromised to the point where the final few miles are reduced to a death-jog, is it better to take Sat as a rest day and Friday an easy run day so that the Sunday 20 miler can be more successful?

What I could achieve in my early forties as opposed to my early fifties...

[Richard21142]

How many miles are you running in a week?  If you are not doing enough mileage to support a 10/20 mile weekend, then take Saturday as an easy day.  An easy day would still have you running but slower/shorter. 

[caito]

How many miles are you running in a week?  If you are not doing enough mileage to support a 10/20 mile weekend, then take Saturday as an easy day.  An easy day would still have you running but slower/shorter. 

I would tend to agree, not that I'm very qualified to answer. Are you following Higdon's mileage plan midweek as well?

Also, many other programs (including all the charity training teams for Boston) seem to do their long runs on Saturdays and take rest days on Sundays.

How many marathons have you run? You probably have some muscle memory and maybe don't need those extra hard weekends if you're not pursuing a serious goal? I can't imagine that for you, starting your 20 milers well-rested will result in a race day disaster.

[Handsome Jack]

This is my 8th attempt. I've completed 6, DNF'd Goshen two years ago (my last) due to a foot injury.

I averaged 40 miles/wk last year, this past month between 40-55. Last week was 55 so maybe barely enough to support that 10/20. Following a mashup of Higdon's Advanced I and Intermediate II. This coming marathon is definitely not a goal race,  happy to get across the finish line say 30 mins+ my PR time.

For sure concerned that if I am running on too well rested legs on Sundays that race day would be horrible in the late stages.

[Handsome Jack]

I wonder if I just answered my own question there and Advanced I too much - that mid-week speed work and pace running.

hmm

[Arrojo]

Higdon's programs are a general guideline, you do not need to be anally attached to it.  (He doesn't actually use that phrase but he does emphasize the point).  Just ensure your weekly total mileage and weekly long run equals what Higdon says;  than he even says you can be flexible in your schedule to do what works for you to meet those two goals.  I always do the Higdon long run on whichever weekend day is more conducive to it (a must for winter training in New England).

[Richard21142]

Higdon's programs are a generally guideline, you do not need to be anally attached to it. 

This!

[Handsome Jack]

Get off my ass, Hal!

[merigayle]

When I was training for marathons, I felt like focussing on the long run was key and getting a long run in the 22-24 mile range made a HUGE difference vs 20 miles as the longest long run prior to the race.

[Handsome Jack]

When I was training for marathons, I felt like focussing on the long run was key and getting a long run in the 22-24 mile range made a HUGE difference vs 20 miles as the longest long run prior to the race.

What was the day before that long run like? Did you go into the Sunday run "on tired legs"?

[Ice Cream]

When I was training for marathons, I felt like focussing on the long run was key and getting a long run in the 22-24 mile range made a HUGE difference vs 20 miles as the longest long run prior to the race.

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[JBM]

What was the day before that long run like? Did you go into the Sunday run "on tired legs"?

I usually rested. Did you say what your time goal was? You're running more miles per week than I ever did.

[Handsome Jack]

I usually rested. Did you say what your time goal was? You're running more miles per week than I ever did.

4:30 - 4:45. I just want to have a solid race run and finish.

[JBM]

Well, I've been somewhat successful. I ran 12 road marathons (I think) and most were under 4 hrs. I probably topped out at 40 miles per week including the long run and even then probably closer to 30. My body can't tolerate high miles. I also do a lot of cross training which balanced it out enough, I think.

[merigayle]

What was the day before that long run like? Did you go into the Sunday run "on tired legs"?

rested.

I think running on tired legs is only really applicable to ultras where you have to "hit the wall" and then keep going. I really do not see it benefiting you too much in a marathon. This is just my personal opinion.

[Ice Cream]

rested.

I think running on tired legs is only really applicable to ultras where you have to "hit the wall" and then keep going. I really do not see it benefiting you too much in a marathon. This is just my personal opinion.

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besides, what are your goals?  Just finish or do you have a time in mind?

[Handsome Jack]

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besides, what are your goals?  Just finish or do you have a time in mind?

Just finish for this one. It would be ideal if I can use it to build from and race one relatively soon afterwards. I really miss running these and it's been 3 years since I crossed the finish line at a full   - which is why I am consumed by self-doubt now

[merigayle]

You could always run the NJ Marathon with me, i pace the 5:25 group. I will guarantee you cross the finish line not a minute sooner than 5:25

[Ice Cream]

Just finish for this one. It would be ideal if I can use it to build from and race one relatively soon afterwards. I really miss running these and it's been 3 years since I crossed the finish line at a full   - which is why I am consumed by self-doubt now

I finished my third marathon on training of 35 mpw.  And it was my first sub-4 hour, too, which surprised me.  I simply did long runs every other week, increasing the length by 2 miles every other week.
Also, I find that run/walk is very, very easy on the body, and very doable.

[Fionn mac Cumhail]

Just finish for this one. It would be ideal if I can use it to build from and race one relatively soon afterwards. I really miss running these and it's been 3 years since I crossed the finish line at a full   - which is why I am consumed by self-doubt now

I'd advise foregoing the advanced and focus on his Intermediate plan (it doesn't mean that you're NOT an advanced runner, which you clearly are, just that it's going to grind you down needlessly)...I'm also with Meri that training on tired legs is way more important for an ultra than a marathon...all of my marathon long runs are on fresh legs.