How much time between speedwork

[escargot]

I've never been so good on this, but I'm throwing it in the mix now.

I'm older so I'm running say 40 minutes and then doing four repeat half-miles at around 6:30 pace to start. (doing it all on a treadmill right now) I've been alternating days because I think I need more recovery time, but i don't know if that's true or I'm just wimping out.

How much and what kind of speedwork do you do? How much rest do you give yourself?

I honestly think my sport should have been cycling, but that was a rich kid sport, so running was there and that's the way of it. Never been fast, so sometimes I'm intimidated by the times of some older runners, but then I see that they have always been way faster. I never broke 5 for the mile in high school, my best 440 was 63 and it wasn't until I was 45 that I broke 5 (4:56), so my goal is to break it again.

[Coyote Mas Loco]

Two or three days between actual workouts is usually sufficient.

And a lot of the time I don't do full "speed" workouts because I'm older than dirt. So I rarely do a full session at V02 max effort (3K-5K pace, e.g., 5X1000 m at 5K pace)) or mile pace (say 10X 400 at mile pace) because the recovery is too long. Rely on consistent tempo runs (3-7.5 miles), mid paced reps (critical velocity, which for me is 8K to 10K pace), and pick ups/fartlek.

[Arrojo]

Never more than twice a week, either for distance running speed work, or sprinting workouts.  I try to space them out, but as long as they are not a back to back days, I don’t have a particular rule.

I’m  about as old as you guys, and sprinting workouts are done at nearly full speed and it takes a lot out me.  For sprint workouts it’s about quality over quantity – I can’t run more than five or six  200m at 95% top speed.   For a distance running speed workout, though, I do at least 12 x 200 because they are not even close to full speed.

[Coyote Mas Loco]

Never more than twice a week, either for distance running speed work, or sprinting workouts.  I try to space them out, but as long as they are not a back to back days, I don’t have a particular rule.

I’m  about as old as you guys, and sprinting workouts are done at nearly full speed and it takes a lot out me.  For sprint workouts it’s about quality over quantity – I can’t run more than five or six  200m at 95% top speed.   For a distance running speed workout, though, I do at least 12 x 200 because they are not even close to full speed.

2X a week is a pretty good rule of thumb and I have a bunch of qualifiers and caveats.
I'll do strides or pick ups or hill "sprints" (I'm not at all sprinty--see below), sometimes a couple additional times a week, but sometimes these are incorporated into the main workouts. For example, a typical standby is a warm up with 3-4 strides, 3-4 mile tempo at anaerobic threshold, then 3-6 fairly fast reps of 20-45 seconds. Or I might do the post workout reps at the end of a CV workout.

But if do a long tempo (6 or 7 miles) I don't normally do any fast stuff afterward and I'll take an extra day or two before taking on anything fast. So if it's a long tempo on Tuesday, I might just run easy through Friday (but do 4-5 pick ups on that day) and do my next hard workout on Saturday (and how hard depends on how well I've recovered!), with long run on Sunday.

As far as how fast, I rarely get past 90% of full speed, which might be about what I can kick in for 200-300 m for a well paced mile race. So this isn't really sprinting.

An opposing view, of which I disagreed with completely, was my ex-college teammate who tried to take over my own running program last year.  His view is that you should be doing speedwork (near sprint) 5-6 days a week. Sets of 100s to 400s nearly all out, or maybe a set of hill reps. If did such a program--And tried to keep any sort of mileage base--I'd be injured in a matter of weeks and would simply hate running.
 

[Arrojo]

An opposing view, of which I disagreed with completely, was my ex-college teammate who tried to take over my own running program last year.  His view is that you should be doing speedwork (near sprint) 5-6 days a week. Sets of 100s to 400s nearly all out, or maybe a set of hill reps. If did such a program--And tried to keep any sort of mileage base--I'd be injured in a matter of weeks and would simply hate running.
 

   That’s fine for high school or college kid, but for masters athletes no f’ing way.  Does he himself do that many speed workouts per week?  Has he coached other masters athletes that way?  You’re right, it’s just begging for an injury. Older runners like us need to be handled with care. 

[Coyote Mas Loco]

   That’s fine for high school or college kid, but for masters athletes no f’ing way.  Does he himself do that many speed workouts per week?  Has he coached other masters athletes that way?  You’re right, it’s just begging for an injury. Older runners like us need to be handled with care. 

He'd send updates from time to time and no matter what I'd do at longer races wanted to know I could do for an all out 200-800. Last year said he could still run sets of 32-33 for 200 (at some 50 lb over his college weight!). Says he's his running club's training guru and claims to have been advisor for a 1990s masters record breaker (I think Ed Whitlock erased all those records) and a US women's Olympic Trials marathon winner. He's something of a disciple of Percy Cerruty who was big on speed training and very heavy on the mind-body, self-sacrifice thing. 

I think I could get close to 5 in the mile, but would require several months of specific training, and I think that would lead to injury and at our age once  you get knocked out with a hamstring pull, PF, or Achilles injury it can take months or years to come back and many never get close. So I'm happy with the aerobic approach! Lydiard and such.

[Richard21142]

 

So I'm happy with the aerobic approach! Lydiard and such.

I coached my daughter with this philosophy, and kept her speed work to an absolute minimum.  Kids she ran against didn't believe her when she told them that she didn't do any speed workouts during the indoor season (runner up in the 1000 as a sophomore). When she was running in college they were killing her with two track workouts and a meet each week.  When she was a junior, she told the coaches that was no longer going to do two speed workouts each week.  The result was that, in the HEPs, she scored in both the 5000m (4th) and 3000m (2nd).

[escargot]

Thanks for the feedback. Do people you guys talk to who tell you stuff actually do it themselves? I tried to get back into it and pulled a hamstring on my left leg right up where my hamstring attaches to my butt and it's taken forever to get over. I'm wondering because people say a lot of things about their workouts and I'm wondering what they're made of. (Barfed after the 5k this weekend, but at least not before finishing) My time was terrible, but not as terrible as it was a week ago. It was on the same course, so I think it's equivalent. I was 82 seconds faster than last week, and I know it's too early to see much in the way of results, but in my mind it felt better, like I felt like my muscles weren't backfiring at a faster pace.

[Coyote Mas Loco]

Sub 5 at 45 is quite fast.

Maybe try this. 5K is really 98% or so aerobic. For 3-4 months just run at an aerobic pace most days. As long as you are mostly healed up, then do a set of pick ups once a week (4-10X 15 seconds) and a tempo run (about 2.5 to 3 miles)/cruise intervals (tempo pace broken down into reps of 3-8 minutes, with a recovery period of 1/4 to 1/5 of your rep (so if it's 5 minutes at tempo you recovery is 1 minute). Once a month do a 5K race +/- a mile to see how you're doing.

If you can be consistent with this you can probably drop another couple minutes off your 5K, and you'd be ready to add a period of more specific training and racing.