It Starts With Food

[leggova]

This is interesting.
A calorie is not a calorie.

Very interesting. Is it true that calories from carbs can't fuel your BMR? Only from Fat and Protein? Why would this be??

Nadra24?

[CheryG]

From what I know she's stretching the truth there.  A lot.  Fro everything I've read the body "needs" about 120g of glucose a day, to mostly run the brain.  BUT, your body protects the brain in the event of famine- 1- it can utilize both dietary and muscle protein for gluconeogenesis, and 2, in ketosis the brain can adapt to running on ketones for a large portion of its food.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201104/your-brain-ketones

The whole brain ketine thing is interesting.  Type 3 diabetes is something worth googling.

[CheryG]

Or maybe she considers that "energy" and separates it from other basal requirements.  I do like her basic premise.

Leads me to wonder about complete protein and vegetarian diets- maybe Meri can answer this?  If I eat a hunk of meat I get all the essential amino acids- meat is a complete protein.  Veggie sources are not complete protein. Soy comes close?  Anyway, I wonder how many calories consumed meat vs. Veggie to equal a complete protein.

[nadra24]

Very interesting. Is it true that calories from carbs can't fuel your BMR? Only from Fat and Protein? Why would this be??

Nadra24?

I have never heard that.  Now, it's been a long time since I took biochemistry, but I can't think why that would be the case.

[merigayle]

Whole grain + beans = complete protein.

[leggova]

I have never heard that.  Now, it's been a long time since I took biochemistry, but I can't think why that would be the case.

I suspe t she is talking out of her ass.

[nadra24]

Whole grain + beans = complete protein.

Right, but to get 20 grams of protein from black beans and brown rice you have to eat just under 450 calories.  (That's a cup of beans at 15 grams of protein and 227 cals, and a cup of brown rice at 5 grams of protein and 216 cals).  To get 20 grams of protein from steak, you only have to eat 3 oz and there are just over 200 calories.  I don't know what proportion of beans to rice you'd have to eat to get the complete protein, so those numbers might be a little off, but that's the general idea. 

Tofu is a complete protein, and a cup of it has 20 grams of protein and about 180 calories so that's pretty similar to meat.

[CheryG]

I suspe t she is talking out of her ass.

Not totally.  She's just not clear and should be more so.  It's interesting to me because the premise behind how she constructs a diet is pretty much how I feed my horses, and how I think it's healthiest to feed them.  I approach it as meeting the amino acid/vit/min/roughage portion of the diet first, then adding additional energy if needed.  I do feel I've found that they'll overconsume calories if their amino acid needs are not met.

As far as the calories of different foodstuffs, it's old news that the body works harder to digest calories from some sources than others. 

[CheryG]

Right, but to get 20 grams of protein from black beans and brown rice you have to eat just under 450 calories.  (That's a cup of beans at 15 grams of protein and 227 cals, and a cup of brown rice at 5 grams of protein and 216 cals).  To get 20 grams of protein from steak, you only have to eat 3 oz and there are just over 200 calories.  I don't know what proportion of beans to rice you'd have to eat to get the complete protein, so those numbers might be a little off, but that's the general idea. 

Tofu is a complete protein, and a cup of it has 20 grams of protein and about 180 calories so that's pretty similar to meat.

Thank you nadra.

[all-smiles]

Chery how strict are you being and are you tracking/counting calories and carbs? I had been doing great and was seeing phenomenal results without being hungry, moods were super stable, with no endo/pcos pain at all! And I've blown it to hell the last few days with stress eating but I'll go back in a day or so.  Once I got used to some of the parameters, it was super easy WITH planning; and on the plus side I've tried tons of new recipes and meals.  We could probably swap a few around if anyone wants

[CheryG]

AS, I haven't been tracking calories diligently, but I still do restrict my carbs to around 100g/day.

That's great that you were feeling so much better!  My endo is still greatly improved.  This last time around I panicked twice and took some ibuprofen before some grumpiness turned into pain (worthless as you know to chase the pain instead), but I only ended up taking 400mg twice, rather than 800mg frequently.  Big improvement!  I might not have needed it at all.

I don't really have any good recipes to share, I'm eating in a very basic, boring manner!  Last night's dinner was shrimp sauteed with a little bit of salt and unsweetened dried coconut with a salad on the side.  Basic, quick, and BORING!

[leggova]

Not totally.  She's just not clear and should be more so.

How so? Either you can or you can't use energy from carbs to fuel BMR. I am really interested in whether this is true or not. Googled it but couldn't come up with much.

[CheryG]

How so? Either you can or you can't use energy from carbs to fuel BMR. I am really interested in whether this is true or not. Googled it but couldn't come up with much.

Personally I say you can.  I sent her this email and question.

"How can you say that carbohydrates cannot be used for BMR when even the brain utilizes 120g glucose/day to operate."

[leggova]

Personally I say you can.  I sent her this email and question.

"How can you say that carbohydrates cannot be used for BMR when even the brain utilizes 120g glucose/day to operate."

Good on you! Would love to hear the response if you get one. Would be very interested to read the citation as well if she gives you one.

[CheryG]

I'll be happy to pass it on!  I doubt she'll answer but if she does I think it will be along the lines of her not including that brain glucose in her definition of BMR because it's "energy".

Here's more of a quote from her:
"BMR activities need fat, protein, vitamins and minerals – carbs are only useful for the vitamins and mineralsthey provide – the carbohydrate itself can only beused for energy – not cell repair and fighting infection. Hence – if you eat 1,500 calories of carbohydrate (as the average citizen of thedeveloped world currently does) – it can’t be used for body maintenance – you need to burn it off down the gym or you will gain weight."

I would have been happier if she had said something along the lines of "needs very little carbohydrates".

[merigayle]

I dunno. I think it depends on the carbs. So many cultures eat diets heavy in grains and legumes, that is all carbs, it is not a carb like white bread is, but it is still high in carbs vs high protein diets.

[nadra24]

I'll be happy to pass it on!  I doubt she'll answer but if she does I think it will be along the lines of her not including that brain glucose in her definition of BMR because it's "energy".

Here's more of a quote from her:
"BMR activities need fat, protein, vitamins and minerals – carbs are only useful for the vitamins and mineralsthey provide – the carbohydrate itself can only beused for energy – not cell repair and fighting infection. Hence – if you eat 1,500 calories of carbohydrate (as the average citizen of thedeveloped world currently does) – it can’t be used for body maintenance – you need to burn it off down the gym or you will gain weight."

I would have been happier if she had said something along the lines of "needs very little carbohydrates".

I think her definition of Basal Metabolic Rate is wrong.  BMR is the energy expended by an organism (person) at rest.  It's how many calories you need to pump blood, breathe in and out, digest food, regulate your body temperature, and maintain your body. Some of that energy is used for cell repair and fighting infection, but BMR measures the calories you need to do that, not the materials (protein, etc) you need. 

[CheryG]

I think it depends a little on the source of the carb, there's that whole insulin response thing and how hard the body needs to work to break it down.  And then there's that fructose/glucose difference.  And then there's the bomb calorimeter problem- it includes indigestible fiber of carbohydrates, where I think a chemical assay does not.  That's why Atkins followers use "net carbs" which is carb minus fiber.

And then there's the problem of being a carb burner instead of a fat burner.  RER testing shows, apparently, that some people do not burn fat. 

[CheryG]

I think her definition of Basal Metabolic Rate is wrong.  BMR is the energy expended by an organism (person) at rest.  It's how many calories you need to pump blood, breathe in and out, digest food, regulate your body temperature, and maintain your body. Some of that energy is used for cell repair and fighting infection, but BMR measures the calories you need to do that, not the materials (protein, etc) you need. 

I think that's a misleading definition.  I've always gone with this one, or something like it: "Basal Metabolic Rate (BMR) is the number of calories your body burns at rest to maintain normal body functions. It is the amount of calories per day your body burns, regardless of exercise. It changes with age, weight, height, gender, diet and exercise habits. "

So, with that, you're going to have to include the calories you get from a protein source.  So it goes back to what percentage of those 1500BMR calories need to be from carbs?  There are different opinions.

"At any one time, the total amount of glucose dissolved in the bloodstream of a healthy non-diabetic is equivalent to only a teaspoon (maybe 5 grams). Much more than that is toxic; much less than that and you pass out. That's not much range for a so-called 'preferred' fuel, is it?

Several studies have shown that under normal low MET conditions (at rest or low-to mid- levels of activity such as walking and easy work) the body only needs about 5 grams of glucose an hour. And that's for people who aren't yet fat-adapted or keto-adapted. The brain is the major consumer of glucose, needing maybe 120 grams a day in people who aren't yet on a low carb eating program.

Low carb eating reduces the brain's glucose requirements considerably, and those who are very low carb (VLC) and keto-adapted may only require about 30 grams of glucose per day to fuel the brain... Twenty of those grams can come from glycerol (a byproduct of fat metabolism) and the balance from gluconeogenesis in the liver (which can actually make up to a whopping 150 grams a day if you haven't metabolically damaged it with NAFLD through fructose overdosing).

Bottom line, unless you are a physical laborer or are training (exercising) hard on a daily basis, once you become fat-adapted, you probably don't ever need to consume more than 150 grams of dietary carbs – and you can probably thrive on far less. Many Pbers [Mark's diet, Primal Blueprint] do very well (including working out) on 30-70 grams a day."

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/a-metabolic-paradigm-shift-fat-carbs-human-body-metabolism/#axzz2OHt13oaQ

IMO, BMR as only "energy" is a sloppy definition.  Her BMR definition is sloppy as well.