Author Topic: Speaking of cheating  (Read 3325 times)

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Online SnarlyMarly

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Speaking of cheating
« on: January 09, 2018, 01:06:00 PM »
So about a year ago a runner I know contacted me and she moved and was running with a certain running club.   She said a memember of the club was a doctor and to,d her to start taking.....and it was a long list.

She revealed that the doctor is a female 50+ runner that had never broken 1:30 for half before and just went 1:24.

So along with the iron and b-12 injections, the list include DHEA, progesterone and testosterone.   I wrote back that Steroids are not allowed period and that maybe progesterone and DHEA allowed under doctor supervision for menopause.  I left it at that and figured "well now she knows and if she does take them it's on her"

Seeing how much she wins and races per social media...I can assume she listened to her new friend. 

Offline RandMart

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 01:36:00 PM »
Am I to understand that they're BOTH doping? Her and the doctor-runner?

On the one hand, it may be a legit TUE [Therapeutic Use Exemption] but on the other hand, that seems like pretty excessive cocktail

I'm guessing the races she's winning aren't drug testing

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Offline Coyote Mas Loco

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 04:44:34 PM »
Masters gray area. But if they can get a TUE for DHEA and testosterone, it would be hard to enforce. With women it might be easier to throw up a red flag if hormone ratios are way out of line. A record breaking female masters runner--trails and ultras I think--was caught and banned a couple years ago for DHEA. She was a PT but claimed that she didn't know that that was not legal. Testing is practically non-existent for masters. 
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Offline RandMart

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 07:58:14 PM »
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Online SnarlyMarly

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2018, 07:58:45 AM »
Masters gray area. But if they can get a TUE for DHEA and testosterone, it would be hard to enforce. With women it might be easier to throw up a red flag if hormone ratios are way out of line. A record breaking female masters runner--trails and ultras I think--was caught and banned a couple years ago for DHEA. She was a PT but claimed that she didn't know that that was not legal. Testing is practically non-existent for masters.


But even then, she was at an event with random testing and she didn't even win the masters title...wasn't she second.    I have only seen testing once and it was Ottawa marathon.   But even there they only appeared interested in the top Canadian athletes.   For many years, the marathons in my area gave prize money.  Russian women had a field day.  Would easily pick up 2500-5k for 2:40 marathon and then do another one the next weekend.


Offline Arrojo

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2018, 01:58:12 PM »
Testing is practically non-existent for masters. 

At the National T&F Championships, they do test for PEDs actually.  Everyone who finishes in the top 3 in every age group in every event gets tested and all others (also-rans like me) get randomly tested.   They haven't tested me yet.   8)  Of course, many older athletes are on all kinds of medications.  A recent controversy erupted over a 70 year old guy who was getting testosterone treatments (legitimately for a condition), but they wouldn't let him compete.


A friend of mine tested positive for something and had to forfeit her National age-group 60m hurdling championship and is kicked out of competition for 2 years.  She's still my friend but I'm pissed at her (and no I am not naming names here).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 02:22:36 PM by Arrojo »
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Offline RandMart

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2018, 03:31:46 PM »
Everyone here has seen Icarus, right?

Icarus | Official Trailer [HD] | Netflix
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Offline RandMart

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2018, 03:35:03 PM »
She's still my friend but I'm pissed at her (and no I am not naming names here).

No need to name names, but are double letters involved here?

Simple Yes or No would suffice
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Offline Coyote Mas Loco

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2018, 03:37:18 PM »
At the National T&F Championships, they do test for PEDs actually.  Everyone who finishes in the top 3 in every age group in every event gets tested and all others (also-rans like me) get randomly tested.   They haven't tested me yet.   8)  Of course, many older athletes are on all kinds of medications.  A recent controversy erupted over a 70 year old guy who was getting testosterone treatments (legitimately for a condition), but they wouldn't let him compete.


A friend of mine tested positive for something and had to forfeit her National age-group 60m hurdling championship and is kicked out of competition for 2 years.  She's still my friend but I'm pissed at her (and no I am not naming names here).

knew your friend online from another forum, on which she no longer participates

they didn't test on he roads in Tulsa nor as far as I could tell at club xc this fall, but good to hear that they are testing at T&F championships; nor did they test at usa xc masters championships

NYRR does test masters at some events; I raced there last spring but it was probably seen as more of a fun run (no prizes or anything) even though there were 3000 or 4000 runners in it

speaking of which, WMA championships in Toronto next year - I am Loco enough to consider doing the 10000 m.

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Offline Arrojo

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2018, 07:08:27 PM »
No need to name names, but are double letters involved here?

Simple Yes or No would suffice

No
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Offline Fred

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2018, 07:56:56 PM »
So about a year ago a runner I know contacted me and she moved and was running with a certain running club.   She said a memember of the club was a doctor and to,d her to start taking.....and it was a long list.

She revealed that the doctor is a female 50+ runner that had never broken 1:30 for half before and just went 1:24.

So along with the iron and b-12 injections, the list include DHEA, progesterone and testosterone.   I wrote back that Steroids are not allowed period and that maybe progesterone and DHEA allowed under doctor supervision for menopause.  I left it at that and figured "well now she knows and if she does take them it's on her"

Seeing how much she wins and races per social media...I can assume she listened to her new friend.

Wikipedia:

"Testosterone and other androgens have an erythropoietic stimulating effect that can cause polycythemia, which manifests as an increase in hemoglobin, hematocrit, or red blood cell count."

So how is this any different than taking EPO, CERA or other drugs to jack up the red blood cell count. Two of the 2:18 female marathoners were caught cheating with chemicals. The 50 year old female isn't any different.

Offline Fred

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2018, 08:10:07 PM »

Offline Arrojo

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2018, 09:46:29 PM »
knew your friend online from another forum, on which she no longer participates

they didn't test on he roads in Tulsa nor as far as I could tell at club xc this fall, but good to hear that they are testing at T&F championships; nor did they test at usa xc masters championships

NYRR does test masters at some events; I raced there last spring but it was probably seen as more of a fun run (no prizes or anything) even though there were 3000 or 4000 runners in it

speaking of which, WMA championships in Toronto next year - I am Loco enough to consider doing the 10000 m.


I think its a USATF thing. Also at the worlds. Good luck!  Im just happy competing and not embarrassing myself at nationals I cant imagine doing worlds.
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Online SnarlyMarly

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2018, 10:37:26 AM »
Everyone here has seen Icarus, right?

Icarus | Official Trailer [HD] | Netflix


Nope....sometimes I just want to stay in my world of naivety and believe that doping doesn't happen at age group level.

Offline RandMart

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2018, 11:16:31 AM »
Well, that's how the movie starts ... then it becomes something completely different  :panic:
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Offline Fred

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2018, 12:12:49 PM »
I never saw the movie.

https://www.npr.org/2017/12/27/573870686/russian-doping-whistleblower-says-he-fears-for-his-life

Does the movie portray the real story?

The question is who do you think is clean in all sports?

Offline Fred

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2018, 12:26:37 PM »
This guy was in his 50's and ran up to 182 miles in a week for training plus speedwork.
Runners World:
"recognizes that the body weight factor plays into his improved times, but adds that he's comfortable with his current regimen and so sees no reason to experiment with fewer miles at this time. He believes that doing roughly 40 percent of his mileage on the treadmill is easier on his body, where he runs on a 3 percent decline, which gives him faster turnover.

Zalokar has his sights set on the 2013 Rotterdam Marathon and a new personal best, possibly even a sub-2:30. "There are always new races to run, new mountains to climb, and new countries to visit," he says.

TRAINING REGIMEN

September 2-15, 2012, in preparation for Oct. 7 Chicago Marathon (2:35:10)

SUNDAY: Half marathon race as training run in 1:22:47; 15 miles total
MONDAY AM: Half marathon tempo run on treadmill in 1:21, 3-mile cool-down; NOON: 10 miles on road, easy (8-9 minutes/mile); PM: 7 miles on road, easy
TUESDAY AM: 12 miles on treadmill (7-7:20 minutes/mile); NOON: (track) 2-mile warm-up, 10 400 @ 78-71 seconds with 200m jog between and 1.5-mile cool-down
WEDNESDAY AM: 2-mile warm-up, 8-mile tempo run in 44:26 on treadmill, 3-mile cool-down; NOON: 7 miles on road, easy; PM: 6 miles on road, easy
THURSDAY AM: 14 miles on treadmill, easy; NOON: 9 miles on road, easy
FRIDAY: 11 miles on treadmill, easy
SATURDAY AM: 2-mile warm-up, 72-mile repeats on treadmill at 11.4-11.2 mph, 4400m @ 13.1 mph, 3-mile cool-down; NOON: 4 miles on road, easy
SUNDAY AM: 32 miles on road, easy; PM: 8 miles on road, easy
MONDAY AM: Half marathon tempo run in 1:20 on treadmill, cool-down until 16 miles total; NOON: 9 miles on road, easy; PM: 7 miles on road, easy
TUESDAY AM: 13 miles on treadmill, easy; NOON: (track) half-mile warm-up, 8800m @ 2:49-2:39 with 200m jog between, 1.5-mile cool-down
WEDNESDAY AM: 2-mile warm-up, 8 mile tempo run in 43:19 on treadmill, 4-mile cool-down; NOON: 7 miles on road, easy; PM: 6 miles on road, easy
THURSDAY AM: 16 miles on treadmill, easy; NOON: 9 miles on road, easy
FRIDAY: 12 miles on treadmill, easy
SATURDAY AM: 2-mile warm-up, 72-mile repeats on treadmill @ 11.5-11.2 mph, 4400s @ 13.2 mph, 4-mile cool-down; NOON: 5 miles on road, easy"
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 12:29:12 PM by Fred »

Offline RandMart

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 02:28:22 PM »
Does the movie portray the real story?

Yes, as it is happening, in fact

NO SPOILERS, but there are a couple points were you think "Oh fuck, he's dead, or will be soon"

Of course, that's only from the AMERICAN POV; in Russia, it was all made up by a delusional schizophrenic
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Offline RandMart

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2018, 12:04:26 PM »
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Offline Rochey

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Re: Speaking of cheating
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2018, 03:36:50 PM »
So about a year ago a runner I know contacted me and she moved and was running with a certain running club.   She said a memember of the club was a doctor and to,d her to start taking.....and it was a long list.

She revealed that the doctor is a female 50+ runner that had never broken 1:30 for half before and just went 1:24.

So along with the iron and b-12 injections, the list include DHEA, progesterone and testosterone.   I wrote back that Steroids are not allowed period and that maybe progesterone and DHEA allowed under doctor supervision for menopause.  I left it at that and figured "well now she knows and if she does take them it's on her"

Seeing how much she wins and races per social media...I can assume she listened to her new friend. 

I want what she's on!   :D

 

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