BBC documentary on doping - Salazar accusations

[iwuzwilson]

Here is a link to the recent BBC documentary on doping, including the part on Alberto Salazar and the Oregon Project. The video is an hour, and the Salazar part starts at about 37 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nxyTyLXt44

[i am party]

Cool, thanks for the link.  I'll cast this to my TV tonight.

[Arrojo]

 

[iwuzwilson]

And Farah backs out of Diamond League race and flies back to Portland.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-3114628/Mo-Farah-run-race-not-run-home-British-Athletics-lesson-not-handle-drugs-crisis.html

[iwuzwilson]

Mo runs away from things; that's what he does

Good one, 10/10!

Yes, that's what champions do!

[Schrödinger’s Bat]

Well, in Farah's defense I'm sure all of that would have been a huge distraction during the meet. Who wants to compete under that kind of pressure/scrutiny.

[Chasing Amy]

Well, in Farah's defense I'm sure all of that would have been a huge distraction during the meet. Who wants to compete under that kind of pressure/scrutiny.

He's a world class, well-compensated, professional athlete, "pressure" and "scrutiny" are part of the package.  I think he made the wrong decision on this one.

[iwuzwilson]

He's a world class, well-compensated, professional athlete, "pressure" and "scrutiny" are part of the package.  I think he made the wrong decision on this one.

That's about how I see it. Even if he got his a** whupped and ran a 3:42 in Birmingham, that would be making a statement. By jetting off to Portland hiding he's making quite another statement.

[Schrödinger’s Bat]

That's about how I see it. Even if he got his a** whupped and ran a 3:42 in Birmingham, that would be making a statement. By jetting off to Portland hiding he's making quite another statement.

Fair point. I like the guy (for no real reason, really, as I don't know him) so I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[iwuzwilson]

Fair point. I like the guy (for no real reason, really, as I don't know him) so I want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Mo has a great story and a lot of charm. The 2012 10000 meters was one of the most memorable races ever. What a moment, and I hope that it was for real and that they did it within in the rules.

So far Mo hasn't been implicating in doing anything illegal, but there are questions about his association with Salazar and Rupp. I didn't watch the interview from last weekend but did read the articles. The jackals on Letsrun are saying that his body language indicates some sort of guilt.

All that aside, the one thing that does make me wonder most about Mo is his huge improvement in the 1500 meters. PR of 3:34 in 2011 and then dropping a 3:28 last year. That is just so huge for an athlete (getting to late career) who was already world class (sub 13 5000 m) prior to joining Salazar's group.   

Overall, this whole deal is kind of depressing and I probably need to step away. Have followed it closely since it broke last week, and it's just getting me down. 

[Chasing Amy]

Mo has a great story and a lot of charm. The 2012 10000 meters was one of the most memorable races ever. What a moment, and I hope that it was for real and that they did it within in the rules.

So far Mo hasn't been implicating in doing anything illegal, but there are questions about his association with Salazar and Rupp. I didn't watch the interview from last weekend but did read the articles. The jackals on Letsrun are saying that his body language indicates some sort of guilt.

All that aside, the one thing that does make me wonder most about Mo is his huge improvement in the 1500 meters. PR of 3:34 in 2011 and then dropping a 3:28 last year. That is just so huge for an athlete (getting to late career) who was already world class (sub 13 5000 m) prior to joining Salazar's group.   

Overall, this whole deal is kind of depressing and I probably need to step away. Have followed it closely since it broke last week, and it's just getting me down. 

I've always thought that track would be irreparably ruined if two particular athletes were found to be doping. Mo is one, Usain Bolt is the other.

[Zapatista]

 Salazar's wins in Boston, New York and his 10K times are suspect too.

[iwuzwilson]

Salazar's wins in Boston, New York and his 10K times are suspect too.

Had an interesting dinner the other night with some old friends who were former Nike athletes, ran in the 1970s and 80s, and each spent several years in Eugene.

Things got rolling in 1976 when Nike decided that it was time to level the playing field, so they created Athletics West. They hired Dick Brown, a physiologist whose primary job was to help give athletes that extra edge while keeping them under the radar. The program thrived for nearly a decade before disbanding, following the death of 23 year old Jeff Drenth who died from a heart attack. Our friend reeled off name after name of Athletics West athletes who were on something or another during that era (the program kind of had two camps, those following Brown and those staying with Bob Sevene who did not support enhancement). According to our friend about half of the 1980-84 Olympic athletes (Salazar included) were on something. And it's been pretty well documented that the 1984 Olympic Trials were a sham, that many of the stars tested postive, and all that TAC (the USATF of its day) did was bring in the athletes and tell them to clean up by the time the LA Games started.

A lot of that culture probably never left Eugene/Portlant--as well as other parts of the region/country.

However if all they have is the evidence that was in the BBC documentary not much will come of it; in fact if anything the Gouchers and Magness could be in for some retribution - ala Lance. 

[Zapatista]

Had an interesting dinner the other night with some old friends who were former Nike athletes, ran in the 1970s and 80s, and each spent several years in Eugene.

Things got rolling in 1976 when Nike decided that it was time to level the playing field, so they created Athletics West. They hired Dick Brown, a physiologist whose primary job was to help give athletes that extra edge while keeping them under the radar. The program thrived for nearly a decade before disbanding, following the death of 23 year old Jeff Drenth who died from a heart attack. Our friend reeled off name after name of Athletics West athletes who were on something or another during that era (the program kind of had two camps, those following Brown and those staying with Bob Sevene who did not support enhancement). According to our friend about half of the 1980-84 Olympic athletes (Salazar included) were on something. And it's been pretty well documented that the 1984 Olympic Trials were a sham, that many of the stars tested postive, and all that TAC (the USATF of its day) did was bring in the athletes and tell them to clean up by the time the LA Games started.

A lot of that culture probably never left Eugene/Portlant--as well as other parts of the region/country.

However if all they have is the evidence that was in the BBC documentary not much will come of it; in fact if anything the Gouchers and Magness could be in for some retribution - ala Lance. 

 Makes sense since Salazar declined in 1984 and barely made the top 50 US times after that. I remember when Drenth died.

[iwuzwilson]

Turning up the heat. Three more NOP athletes step forth. Magness reveals veiled email threat from Salazar.

http://www.propublica.org/article/more-athletes-say-track-coach-alberto-salazar-broke-drug-rules

[Schrödinger’s Bat]

Turning up the heat. Three more NOP athletes step forth. Magness reveals veiled email threat from Salazar.

http://www.propublica.org/article/more-athletes-say-track-coach-alberto-salazar-broke-drug-rules

Ooh, interesting.

Re: Mo's body language. He's never been the most HUZAH type person when interviewed. He's no Usain Bolt in that regard.

[iwuzwilson]

Former NCAA and U.S. Champ Lauren Fleshman speaks out:

http://www.propublica.org/article/elite-runner-had-qualms-alberto-salazar-asthma-drug-performance

[iwuzwilson]

Farah now trains alone in France.
I don't know if this is it, but if Farah breaks away then the NOP house might just start tumbling down.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/11681942/Mo-Farah-shuns-Nike-Project-Oregon-to-train-alone-in-wake-of-Alberto-Salazar-scandal.html

[Schrödinger’s Bat]

Just saw this today.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/mo-farah-missed-two-drugs-test-in-lead-up-to-2012-olympics-reports-31311716.html

[iwuzwilson]

Saw that SB.

Also this came out yesterday. The hits keep coming.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3127125/What-Alberto-Salazar-told-massage-therapist-training-base-s-package-need-send-kept-cold.html

[Run Amok]

This is fascinating. This is what it takes. These coaches, etc, have always relied on the athletes to keep quiet. So to the extent that people are willing to speak out-- it's very good!

[Schrödinger’s Bat]

Saw that SB.

Also this came out yesterday. The hits keep coming.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3127125/What-Alberto-Salazar-told-massage-therapist-training-base-s-package-need-send-kept-cold.html

Wow.

[iwuzwilson]

Other than a few articles at major news sites the story still does not seem to be playing big in the US. It's another situation in Britain, where Mo is a huge deal. Now the news cycle is feeding on itself it seems and Farah's reaction to it all becomes the story unto itself.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/jun/18/mo-farah-protect-reputation-alberto-salazar?

[iwuzwilson]

Nothing on ST about it in nearly a week

LetsRun homepage looks to be running at about 50% NOP

I saw that yesterday, when you posted a link to ST. LRC is a bit of a shark tank and they smell blood. And if you are a distance or mid-distance fan Salazar has probably been the most controversial American figure for the past 8 or 10 years, with Rupp in tow. Rupp was about 20 or so when I saw reference him as "the experiment." Interestingly, two of the most controversial women runners on Letsrun (Kara Goucher and Lauren Fleshmen) are the ones who have had some first hand experience with the issues at hand.

[iwuzwilson]

Farah speaks out on Facebook.

I have never taken performance enhancing drugs in my life and I never will. Over the course of my career I have taken hundreds of drugs tests and every single one has been negative. Ive fully explained the only two tests in my career that I have ever missed, which the authorities understood, and there was never any suggestion that these were anything more than simple mistakes.
The last two weeks have been the toughest of my life with rumours and speculation about me that are completely false and the impact this has had on my family and friends has left me angry, frustrated and upset. In particular, the media pressure on my young family and my wife, who is 5 months pregnant, is extremely painful, especially as Im away training for some important races.
As I made clear, I went to Portland to speak to Alberto Salazar and demand answers. He reassured me that the claims are false and that he will soon be providing evidence to make that clear. Until then I will not be commenting further on the allegations.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank my fans, family, friends and teammates for all the great support they have provided over the last few days and hope that I will now be allowed to focus on my training and winning medals for my country."

https://www.facebook.com/MoFarahGold?fref=ts

Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6570705&page=0#ixzz3dWyT1SY3

[ihop]

This is fascinating.

[iwuzwilson]

British press stalks the Salazars in Portland.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/spo...tland.html

[iwuzwilson]

Another massage therapist speaks up. Reported it to WADA three years ago.


http://www.theguardian.com/spo...-therapist

[iwuzwilson]

DARTH SAL AND THE EMPIRE STRIKE BACK!


http://nikeoregonproject.com/blogs/news/35522561-alberto-open-letter-part-1

[Richard21142]

I never noticed it was a skull, I just saw wings or laurels

It is supposed to be a phantom.

[iwuzwilson]

John Stiner (massage therapist interviewed on the BBC production) on Facebook today:

I told 100% the truth, I'll take 20 lie detector tests. Of course he said I'm lying.

I ask you Alberto Salazar; would you take a lie detector ..?

After all that has been said by nearly 20 separate people is this all you've got..?

[iwuzwilson]

Some odd stuff going on in the Salazar rebuttal.

He admits to using his own sons as guinea pigs in an Androgel experiments. How many squirts of the substance would lead to a positive test in T:E ratios. Okay...
His rationale? They were concerned about sabatoge, and how much Androgel it would take if someone touched Galen or another athlete.
Sounds pretty disingenuous.

And him running around the world with tubes of androgel in his luggage. Not letting his athletes touch the bags for fear that they would contaminate themselves.

 

[iwuzwilson]

Wow
Kara Goucher speaks out with candor and emotion following her 5000 meter race on Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo0QBCuYZcc

[Arrojo]

Wow
Kara Goucher speaks out with candor and emotion following her 5000 meter race on Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo0QBCuYZcc

Interesting.  Do you have faith that USADA will have a fair and accurate report?  When do you think it will be complete?

[iwuzwilson]

Interesting.  Do you have faith that USADA will have a fair and accurate report?  When do you think it will be complete?

Good questions. USADA is independent and not beholden to USATF or corporations so you can only hop that they will be fair. They did bring down Lance after all. The thing about fair and accurate might be different, they will hopefully (if not likely) be fair but this does not appear to be a systemic doping program like what went on with the US Postal Service team/Lance for all those years.

From what it sounds like Salazar kept a cloak of secrecy about what he was doing with Rupp (possibly Farah). It's as if they had layers of "benefits," depending on the athete's level/and insiderness. Like once in the program, they got the altitude tents, alter G, form work, and benefits of above board science. Then there would be those delving into the gray area (like Goucher and Lauren Fleshman) who got prescription drugs--sometimes legitimately sometimes not so much--and then were told to use them to the maximum. That's borderline but probably won't result in any sanctions. However, if it can be proven that Salazar was giving prescription drugs to athletes who did not have the prescriptions (which is what Goucher alleges), then that's crossing the legal line and not just WADA/USADA rules.

Likewise, mailing drugs, even prescription prednisone, to Europe and such is a no.

The accusations about Rupp, if they are as Magness and Goucher have said, really go into the illegal realm. Testosterone supplents at 16, micro-dosing massages with Androgel, IVs presumably to mask any concentrations of drugs, etc. would be highly illegal. But the thing is, there is not yet any direct evidence that this did occur. And so far, no one from the inner circle has spoken up. So to get to the most serious claims, either someone with direct evidence has to speak out and show the evidence (like with the cyclists that brought down Lance) or one of the athletes in the group will have to get caught with a positive test.

A lot of people are asking about Dathan Ritzenhein and Alan Webb who were in the program ca. 2009 - 2013. What do they know and will they speak up?

But with the evidence that they have now it would not not much more than a slap on the wrist for Salazar, and a cloud of suspicion for the program. 

As far as timing. This will take months and we really might not hear much until next year.