Author Topic: Trail running noob  (Read 5944 times)

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Offline BonitaApplebum

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Trail running noob
« on: January 09, 2020, 05:16:19 PM »
I’m starting from scratch on running... and I mean scratch. I’m planning to do a C25K program... and I’m thinking of doing trail running for as much of it as possible, weather permitting.

I am typically a street runner, if not there then on the indoor track... I have no real trail running experience, but I’ve hiked plenty and am comfortable on trails.

Any advice for me? My main questions are about footwear. I have Brooks Ghost 10 running shoes.

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2020, 07:35:37 PM »
All I know about Brooks trail shoes is that the PureGrit7 was good, ran two trail marathons in them, but the PureGrit8 sucked horribly. So slick, only good in dry weather.

Offline diablita

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2020, 07:58:06 PM »
Since the Ghost are well cushioned, neutral road shoes are you asking if you should wear them anyway or for trail she recos?

Bonita you can get away with road shoes on super easy, not technical trails that are dry.  Once you change one of those factors you'll be happier in trail shoes.  Some shoes like Salomon Sense Ride 2 are for both (disclosure: I wear and love these).  For neutral, well padded shoes the Brooks Cascadia would be equivalent, PureGrit would be lower profile.  I wear neutral Brooks (Ghost for plush, Launch most of the time, Ricochet for track) and wore Cascadia for years but after my last bad foot/ankle sprain I had to switch to something wider and lower to the ground to stop from rolling.  Now I wear the Salomons (love) and I have a pair of Topos trail shoes that have a lower drop. 

I'd always go to a local running store to get fitted with a new type of shoe (esp if they have a generous exchange policy to figure it out) but Running Warehouse is good with their exchange policy, too. 

"Some things you just need to do for yourself, even if it means nicking your nads."  --nneJ

Offline RioG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2020, 08:04:15 PM »
It's so much better, that's all you need to know!

Don't be alarmed when you're slow AF relative to your road speed.

Be prepared to eat dirt a few times.

Carry traction in the winter and spring.  There's nothing worse than dying for a good trail run on a gorgeous spring day only to realize the trail is still ankle deep in snow and ice!

Walk the hills, it's like a rule or something (kidding, but someone told me that once and I pretend it's true when I'm tired)

It's way better

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Offline diablita

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2020, 08:28:42 PM »
I pretend it's true too.  But meri does it so it must be ok.  :d . I figure when I could walk as fast as I can run a hill, I should just walk it.
"Some things you just need to do for yourself, even if it means nicking your nads."  --nneJ

Offline RioG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2020, 08:34:07 PM »
I pretend it's true too.  But meri does it so it must be ok.  :d . I figure when I could walk as fast as I can run a hill, I should just walk it.
Ha, I think that is actually the rule, until some crazy person blows past you running up the cliff and then you just feel like a loser :D

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Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2020, 08:57:48 PM »
Bring snacks.


For the bears. ;)

Offline radial

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2020, 09:27:25 PM »
I like trail running for two main reasons.  The terrain slows you down and that keeps you from getting too far ahead of your capabilities.
The constantly varying angles keep you from falling into the repetitive rhythms that so often result in injuries.  The only things I pay attention to with trail shoes are the soles.  You need traction to keep you from breaking your neck and some insulation from the pointy stuff underfoot that is trying to turn the bottoms of your feet into hamburger. 

Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2020, 09:49:25 PM »
This is all great feedback. Thank you!

Rio do you have recommendations for “traction”? I assume you mean something to slip over my shoes.

Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2020, 09:51:42 PM »
And I think I’ll look for trail shoes. I probably won’t do anything particularly technical to start... but I know I’ll want to eventually.

Offline RioG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2020, 02:58:48 AM »
This is all great feedback. Thank you!

Rio do you have recommendations for “traction”? I assume you mean something to slip over my shoes.
I just bought these hardcore slip on things from Amazon.  I think I could scale an icewall in them.  A bit overkill but I'm paranoid about ice, especially 5 or 10k into the woods, alone

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Offline Coyote Mas Loco

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2020, 07:43:40 AM »
What kinds of trails? Are these like rolling horse paths or fire roads? Or single track trails with roots, rocks, and divots? For the smoother trails a road shoe is fine. On the more technical terrain a trail shoe is nice because you will have better grip and feel on the trail. I have had Inov8 and LaSportiva shoes. I do trail running 2-5 times a week throughout much of the year.
I'll stick to running, thank you.

Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2020, 07:59:35 AM »
What kinds of trails? Are these like rolling horse paths or fire roads? Or single track trails with roots, rocks, and divots? For the smoother trails a road shoe is fine. On the more technical terrain a trail shoe is nice because you will have better grip and feel on the trail. I have had Inov8 and LaSportiva shoes. I do trail running 2-5 times a week throughout much of the year.
Great question! I think, eventually... all of the above? But to get started there’s a three mile loop in the state forest here that I walk a lot... it’s wide enough for horses (and once I saw a pickup come through for an emergency), the terrain is mostly rolling with one big hill. I walk it fine in running shoes or in boots. But it’s a little busy sometimes and I’d like to eventually branch out into less traveled trails, so that would be more of the rooty rocky single trail type of terrain.

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2020, 08:00:57 AM »
IME it really depends on the road shoe and your feet.   I wore Saucony Hurricanes everywhere for while- from road to trails to hiking in the Whites. They were great for me at that time.

Right now I'm in La Sportiva Akasha, a pair that I probably should have retired 100 miles ago but I keep grabbing them for some reason.  They have vibram soles have better grip on rocks than most.

I'm also in Altra Lone Peaks, liking them so far, good traction in the snow. I only have 40 miles or so on them, as I've slowly been rotating them in. I both like the huge toe box and predict I'll hate it once I return to technical trail running in the spring. We'll see.

I think you'll love trail running and it surprises me that you haven't done it before. :)  IMO what really slows doen new trail runners is that you'll have to pay more attention to where you're putting your feet.  After a while it will become second nature and will require less mental focus and you'll speed up.  No tips or tricks for that, just time to build confidence.

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2020, 08:01:59 AM »
Great question! I think, eventually... all of the above? But to get started there’s a three mile loop in the state forest here that I walk a lot... it’s wide enough for horses (and once I saw a pickup come through for an emergency), the terrain is mostly rolling with one big hill. I walk it fine in running shoes or in boots. But it’s a little busy sometimes and I’d like to eventually branch out into less traveled trails, so that would be more of the rooty rocky single trail type of terrain.

I'm picturing the terrain like what's at Stone Cat? Willowdale Stste Forest?
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 08:04:17 AM by CheryG »

Offline RioG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2020, 08:14:07 AM »
What kinds of trails? Are these like rolling horse paths or fire roads? Or single track trails with roots, rocks, and divots? For the smoother trails a road shoe is fine. On the more technical terrain a trail shoe is nice because you will have better grip and feel on the trail. I have had Inov8 and LaSportiva shoes. I do trail running 2-5 times a week throughout much of the year.
Oh, good point.  I was assuming single track since that's all I have near me.  The city has different trails.

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Offline RioG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2020, 08:16:05 AM »
Also, when I ran the bad thing, I ran with a woman who was wearing road shoes.  And she had done the race before.  I was surprised because it was about as technical as it gets around here, but she managed.

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Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2020, 08:27:12 AM »


I think you'll love trail running and it surprises me that you haven't done it before. :)  IMO what really slows doen new trail runners is that you'll have to pay more attention to where you're putting your feet.  After a while it will become second nature and will require less mental focus and you'll speed up.  No tips or tricks for that, just time to build confidence.

I know!! I love walking/hiking so much. The woods are 100% my happy place.

I am rather clumsy and already a slow runner, so I won’t be hitting any PRs... and I’m a little nervous about wiping out somewhere in the wilderness. But I think you are right, I just need to build confidence.

I probably won’t do anything particularly gnarly for a while... like I said in the OP, I’m starting from scratch. My fitness level is pretty low right now. But I’m okay with slow and steady for a while until I have some stamina.

Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2020, 08:29:17 AM »
I'm picturing the terrain like what's at Stone Cat? Willowdale Stste Forest?
I don’t know either of those...

One of the things I’m excited about is exploring new territory. My “walk out the door” running routes are sooooo boring.

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2020, 08:38:42 AM »
Some of it does boil down to stride and balance, IMO. Whenever I hike with the rock climber DH he's like a freakin' gecko no matter what's on his feet.  I hate him as I slip amd slide around with the most technical soles I can find.  His body just knows how to balance better than mine does.

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2020, 08:40:28 AM »
I don’t know either of those...

One of the things I’m excited about is exploring new territory. My “walk out the door” running routes are sooooo boring.

If you ever get a chance go check out Willowdale, you should! Fantastic trails.  Moderate in regard to technical. 

Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2020, 09:22:05 AM »
If you ever get a chance go check out Willowdale, you should! Fantastic trails.  Moderate in regard to technical.

I took a look online and you are right, it's similar to what I'm doing here in the local state forest. Looks beautiful... about an hour from me, but a good weekend destination. Thanks!

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2020, 09:57:18 AM »
YW! When I ran on those trails it rained like 2" that day, if I'd had on an aggressive road shoe I would have probably been OK. (Not banana slicks like my Kinvaras). The soil was really good- not too much clay, not too much sand.  JBM has run there several times and could give better input I'm sure.

Offline Arrojo

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2020, 01:53:44 PM »
Trail running is great. Innov8 makes great trail shoes. I have Asics Gel Venture 5 Trail shoes, they’re great. If you’re really going to do different types of trail running, I’d recommend trail shoes.
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Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2020, 04:12:55 PM »
Trail running is great. Innov8 makes great trail shoes. I have Asics Gel Venture 5 Trail shoes, they’re great. If you’re really going to do different types of trail running, I’d recommend trail shoes.
Can you recommend some good local routes for me?

Offline diablita

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2020, 04:30:54 PM »
You may want to do a search for your local Trail Sisters group on FaceBook as well.  Our local chapter has thousands of women in it and is very active so I bet yours is fantastic.  We have group runs all over WNC every weekend and women posting for buddies or asking for routes on the daily.  It's a really great resource.
"Some things you just need to do for yourself, even if it means nicking your nads."  --nneJ

Offline BonitaApplebum

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Trail running noob
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2020, 05:04:55 PM »
You may want to do a search for your local Trail Sisters group on FaceBook as well.  Our local chapter has thousands of women in it and is very active so I bet yours is fantastic.  We have group runs all over WNC every weekend and women posting for buddies or asking for routes on the daily.  It's a really great resource.
I just found this organization a few weeks ago! I am definitely going to connect with them after I get some training under my belt.

Offline diablita

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2020, 07:08:26 PM »
Oh good!  I ran with our local group on Thanksgiving morning and am working an aid station with them at a hundo in April.  The ladies I met are all great and of course I love the mission.

We often have posts from trail newbs, transplants or visitors asking for someone to take them out to learn.  And the group hosts a big "no woman left behind" run once a month.  These efforts (plus all the female focus in the trail world) have several of our local races publicizing the mail/female ratio now with females dominating.  The well known 50K CheryG is running in the VA Highlands being one of them.
"Some things you just need to do for yourself, even if it means nicking your nads."  --nneJ

Offline roadstrailstris

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2020, 07:29:12 PM »
I love trail running! And I've mostly just run in the same shoes I wear on the road. I'm okay with them getting muddy and I haven't found too much need in MA for trail shoes- slick rock would have made me buy different shoes, but roots and a few rocks seem to be fine for road shoes. I don't really find much difference in trail running vs. road running other than being much slower over the same distance and needing to stay focused on the terrain. I really like to zone out during a run, but while I'm on trails I keep an eye on every place I'm stepping so I don't slip or roll an ankle. I've always felt like trail running makes me a better runner- you learn to react to changes in the terrain, short climbs, or jumping over big puddles. It's also just fun!

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2020, 09:08:24 AM »
Trail Sisters boosted the Loon Mtn race by giving a huge discount to the entry fee. I wasn't going to say no to that!

If you decide that you'd rather run alone (as I do) you'll have people trying to put their fears about the safety of it into your head. 

As with hiking, I file a flight plan of sorts with the DH. I tell him where I will be parking, the section of trails I intend to be running on, and approximately how long I'll be.  I text when I'm done. Longer runs, I'll text at prominent points on the trail.

Winter running/hiking I bring extra clothes and snacks if I'm going to be far from a trailhead.  I also make sure the phone is fully charged and that I keep it warm.  That way, if I am laying in the trail all broken, I might not freeze to death as quickly while I wait for someone to come scrape me up.

Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2020, 09:24:34 AM »
Good points!

I hike alone often, it doesn’t faze me. I do generally let people know where I’m going.

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2020, 09:44:31 AM »
Good!

I do like the social aspect of group runs and I like how our Shoefly group organizes them- a 1 mile and approx 3.1 mile route is marked, running or walking as little or as much as you want is totally fine. Some show up early to run extra and participate in the after run activities, some show up for the start and stay out on the trails longer. Not timed. Crazy, mostly random awards given. A special prize each run for the bloodiest fall.

I don't like runs where the fast people wait for the slow people at intersections. The slow folk like myself never get a break.

But mostly I run alone because I like the zen of it and it allows me to focus on my effort.

Offline diablita

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2020, 02:08:31 PM »
I love to run alone. It’s easier tbh, talking seems to have my HR higher. But I’m learning to love running with friends sometimes too. This morning I ran a new route around a lake 30 min from home because a friend asked me to join her. We had a runventure finding our way. Always wanted to go but maybe wouldn’t have without a buddy.

I agree about the safety thing. People less risk averse will broadcast their worries. And common sense counts for much. I love that we all have options.
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Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2020, 05:41:38 PM »
I just can't seem to find someone that has roughly the same pace and effort as I do, and it fucking sucks big time.  I hope that for all of you who live in more populated areas with more runners it's a little bit easier and more fun.

Offline diablita

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2020, 07:02:57 PM »
Come for a visit; I'd totally run with you
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Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2020, 08:06:45 PM »
Aww, thanks! I think we should find a trail race that has a half mary, 50k and 50M distances and all of us CHers should run.

Offline diablita

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2020, 08:12:06 PM »
agreed!
"Some things you just need to do for yourself, even if it means nicking your nads."  --nneJ

Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2020, 08:32:23 PM »
Hah I’ll have to get back to you guys on the race meetup... :roll:

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2020, 07:47:26 AM »
Trail races aren't so much races, esp compared to the road race scene around Boston, lol.  Those people are serious.

They're more like roaming parties with juvenile food.  It's the best.

Cups of chips with M&Ms at aid stations... gummi bears... donuts...  yummmm.

Offline CheryG

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2020, 12:01:56 PM »
I also have to comment that in a way, virtually, ypu do run with me, diablita.  I see you posting about workouts online tha are harder than the ones I'm throwing down and I feel not so alone that I want to cross my Ts and dot my Is.  A neighbor of mine is training for the same 50k, she's two minutes a mile faster than I am to start with, and is totally winging it with her training.  She's a super nice person, but I don't feel like I can relate at all.  If that makes sense.

Offline diablita

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2020, 05:42:47 PM »
 :heartbeat:  totally get it and know the feeling well.  It's a nice by-product of our over-connected world.
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Offline witchypoo

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2020, 01:46:31 PM »
if you're interested* in a running group in your area, bum, try TARC : http://trailanimals.com/

they are a great bunch.

*i am rarely interested, as i run trail ALONE TO PRESERVE MY SANITY.  but meeting up with folks can be a nice change of pace.

Offline nadra's babydaddy

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2020, 04:03:28 PM »
I have a good friend from college and former XC teammate who's pretty active with TARC.  Seems like they have a good time!  She can vouch that I'm a terrible person  :specs:

Being out here, where you're over a mile high (or two if you're feeling ambitious) and pretty much either going up or down a mountain has taught me that there's a wide spectrum when it comes to trail running, from flat dirt loops in the neighborhood woods to...Utah.  So I strongly temper my expectations as far as distance/speed/type of locomotion and just go for time on my feet and trying not to break anything.  As far as shoes, I used to like my Brooks Cascadias, but these days I don't do very much that's super technical and usually stick to my regular running shoes, which is also Brooks Ghosts.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 04:05:30 PM by nadra's babydaddy »

Offline Arrojo

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2020, 02:17:00 PM »
if you're interested* in a running group in your area, bum, try TARC : http://trailanimals.com/

they are a great bunch.

*i am rarely interested, as i run trail ALONE TO PRESERVE MY SANITY.  but meeting up with folks can be a nice change of pace.

Actually the gfrc (http://www.gfrcrun.org) is closer and we do tons of trail races. Although this time of year, it's more snowshoeing and snowshoe races.

Next one is 3/22 "To Hale and Back Trail Race (5 K and 6 Hour) - 9:00 am Sunday, Hale Reservation, Westwood"
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 02:19:02 PM by Arrojo »
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Offline BonitaApplebum

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Re: Trail running noob
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2020, 06:11:51 PM »
Actually the gfrc (http://www.gfrcrun.org) is closer and we do tons of trail races. Although this time of year, it's more snowshoeing and snowshoe races.

Next one is 3/22 "To Hale and Back Trail Race (5 K and 6 Hour) - 9:00 am Sunday, Hale Reservation, Westwood"

Thanks! I am generally in witchy's camp and prefer to run alone, but I've been thinking it would be nice to meet local runners. We'll see!

 

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